flu and H1N1 vaccines

General discussion regarding Kawasaki disease

Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby murjoyd » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:18 pm

Thanks so much for sharing this, April. Sounds a little scary so far. We have decided to vaccinate for both flu and H1N1 when they are available. Since our son's vax schedule was really over-loaded with 18 month vax, flu, H1N1, and the 12 month catch up vax, we are postponing the 18 month (all booster shots) and getting only the MMR that he missed due to the IVIG. That's still a lot of vaccinations in a short time, but I don't think missing out on flu and H1N1 is a good idea given what's already happening...

We so appreciate your updates!
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby bremen » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:54 pm

1) Just out is some indication that flu vaccine may increase risk of swine flu with a proper research paper pending: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0909 ... e_concerns

2) The underground conspiracy theory people are abuzz with articles that swine flu vaccine was patented in 2005 by Novartis pharmaceuticals and that it is a reverse engineered influenza from the 1918 pandemic. Google 'novartis+swine flu patent'

Not to say I believe either, but info. to consider nonetheless.

~Jason
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby maria608 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:11 am

I need some wisdom. My son was released from the hospital about 2 weeks ago after being treated for KD. He responded well to the IVIG and his echo looked good. He's now taking one aspirin a day and is still dealing with bloodshot eyes, peeling skin, joint pain... I got him his regular flu shot the other day and am planning on getting him the H1N1 shot as well. I've seen people talk about side effects. Can someone elaborate on this for me? I know the past two days he's started getting a rash toward the end of the day. I'm going to call the specialist today but I was wondering if anyone else's child had experienced a reoccurance of rash, especially after the flu shot. Any other info you can share with me from your experiences would be helpful. I'm not sure when I should let him be around other kids. His preschool has already had confirmed cases of H1N1 so I'm scared to bring him until he's been vaccinated. Am I overreacting? I just worry about Reye's. I know it's rare but isn't kawasaki's rare too? Shoiuld I not get him the H1N1? Any and all suggestions are welcomed!
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby liquidambar » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:46 pm

Through the years I have donated a lot of hard earned money to the National Vaccine Information Center. Don't let my money and donations go to waste. Go there to their web site and see if anything is of interest to you there. Good luck.
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby Momcat » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:36 pm

This is an interesting question. They put off regular vaccinations (live ones especially I think) after IVIG. I've heard that some of the H1N1 vaccinations are live. If so, you might not be able to get one that soon after IVIG. I am stunned that someone gave your child a flu shot that soon after KD, although our daughter had one during KD and I swear it made her worse and since then I've been told by a lot of medical people that the pediatrician was way out of line giving her the flu shot when she had KD. But I also do not think they had diagnosed it yet either...... I would have the bloodwork checked for CRP levels if that rash is continuing. The other thought is that some people are allergic to aspirin and get hives from it. Does he have a fever? As I remember, there are few if any documented cases of Reyes on low dose aspirin, so I wouldn't worry about that much. When KD happens you can get really sensitive about everything for the first few months, actually--even years. I still panic some whenever my daughter gets a fever. Check to see if any cases of H1N1 have been reported at your school and talk to your pediatrician about the vaccination. I would definitely call your specialist about that rash.
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby maria608 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:01 am

Momcat, thanks so much for all the great info. The specialist at the hospital had told us to wait on the flu shot until he was fever free for 1 week. I waited almost a week longer than that but had I known that there could be side effects I would have waited longer. There have been confirmed cases of H1N1 at my son's preschool so I'm just keeping him home until either he's vaccinated or the specialist gives me the green light (we see him again on the 22nd). I did call both the specialist and the pediatrician about the rash. The specialist's nurse referred me to the pediatrician since they did the flu shot. The pediatrician seemed to think it would be bizarre for this to have been a reaction to the shot because it appeared, disappeared, and reappeared. It went away again yesterday morning and didn't come back last night. No fever...just really bloodshot eyes. My competely uneducated theory is that maybe as the day progresses his body experiences more inflammation. Which makes sense since his eyes are always more bloodshot at night. The doctor had me give him a bath at lunchtime yesterday to try to bring out the rash. They said that sometimes the rash will get worse after a bath or playing outside in the heat. Thankfully it didn't come back but we'll see what happens today. Thanks for the info on Reyes. The specialist at the hospital told us it was extremely unlikely he would get it but you're completely right. I have definitely become overly cautious since he's been home. Thanks so much for your help!
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby Momcat » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:07 pm

You are welcome, be sure to ask any questions you have here. There are many parents here with loads of information for new KD parents. I forgot to tell you that they put off live vaccinations for about 10 or 11 months as I remember. Maybe it is just for MMR because of all the immunities that are carried in the IVIG. I'm not sure, but I would check on it. The regular flu shot is not a live vaccination and I think just the most spray H1N1 is live. Check to be sure if you decided to give him one. KD kids to have "flares" when the acute stage is dying down. If that rash returns, especially with a fever I would be really concerned. CRP bloodwork values would show an increase if the KD is persistent. The bloodshot eyes are telling you something also. Our daughter had really horrible bloodshot eyes during KD and at times I swear she looked like Dracula. Later they couldn't explain why they continued to be bloodshot. We went to an opthamalogist and they showed us the difference between an allergy and KD. If you lift up the eyelids and see white, then it is an outside irritation, if you lift the lids and the whole eye is bloodshot then it is most likely not an allergy. Our daughter had a long course of KD, so the inflammation in her vessels continued for a few months instead of a couple weeks.
When is your followup echo scheduled? Hang in there, KD can be quite a rollercoaster ride!
Sandy
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby maria608 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:58 pm

Thanks so much Sandy! The dracula comment was so accurate! My son's eyes are so red. They seem to be getting redder. I guess if they continue like this or get worse I'll call the doctor again. The rash still hasn't come back and I'm so grateful for that. We have an appointment with the specialist in 2 weeks and they'll schedule the echo and bloodwork for 4 weeks after that. Hopefully by Thanksgiving, or soon after, we'll have results. I'm so glad you mentioned the "flares". Everytime I feel like he's getting better it seems like he has a bad day or two where I start worrying all over again. Did you experience severe mood swings with your daughter? I feel like my son is Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde some days. He's normally such a sweet, agreeable boy but he has become so moody and downright mean at times. The behavior actually got really bad Tuesday (day after he had flu shot) which has me wondering if this too was made worse by the shot. He's 3 1/2 so I'm sure some of his behavior is normal 3 year old behavior but this is beyond what we've experienced with him before. I'm so glad you told me about your experiences with the flu shot. It has really helped me make sense of the setback we've been experiencing this week. Thanks for the heads up on the live virus vaccines. My pediatrician had told us about this and thankfully, the children's hospital gave us lots of literature to read and that information was included. He's also scheduled for his 4 year old shots in December but I'll be putting that off for quite a while. Thanks again for your help. What a blessing this site is for those of us who knew nothing of KD before having to watch our children suffer through it.
Maria
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby award » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:48 pm

The rash commonly recurs after KD and is not likely to be related to the shot--my son had the same issue and did not have a flu shot after his KD since it was during the summer time. Also, the flu shot he had wasn't live and if he wasn't ill then I'd say it's probably ok but I usually err on the side of caution and wait until their immune system settles down. But if he was not actively ill, and definitely not having fevers, probably not a big issue. The H1N1 (and regular flu) nasal spray is partially live and he won't be eligible for that or MMR or IPV for 11 mos after KD/IVIG because the IVIG reduces the chance the vaccines will work, but they don't interact--just makes the shots potentially useless and therefore no reason to poke him unnecessarily.
The fact that he had IVIG seems to be somewhat protective against bugs for a little while --usually several months--but I probably wouldn't take a chance if he's on Aspirin during this flu season---but he'll have to have the shot, which is not live at all. I am not terribly thrilled with a new vaccine but then, I never am. This is not really new though as they are simply following the same pathway they always have for the typical flu shots so they are not actually reinventing the wheel on this one, so less likely to be an issue.

I would keep him home as long as you can reasonably do so, a few more weeks would be ideal as he won't have immunity for the flu for 3-4 weeks AFTER his last flu shot so it's not effective yet.

Hope you are getting some rest as well, you need it after all the stress!!
Take care,

April Ward RN, MS, NP/PA Family Medicine
A Kawasaki mom too
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby maria608 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:06 am

April,
thank you so much for all the great information. I have been so torn about keeping him home. I want him home because I'm terrified of him getting the regular flu or H1N1 at preschool. I've been feeling conflicted about it because I wasn't sure if I was being too overprotective. Thanks for confirming I'm making the right choice in keeping him home! I had no idea it takes so long for the flu shot to become effective. Thanks also for the input on the H1N1 vaccine. I've gone back and forth on this as well. From what I understand, kids 9 and under have to have 2 shots 3 weeks apart. Is this accurate? If so, any ideas on how protected he'll be after the first shot? I'd hate for him to miss 2 months of school but if I keep him out until after the second shot he'll miss more than 2 months. It's just preschool so I'm not concerned about him missing anything...he's just asking about it and asking when he can go back. I know he's sick of being stuck at home for so long. This feels like such a nightmare. I feel like I'm struggling with every one of these decisions and I worry that whatever decision I make I will wonder if I should have decided differently. Thanks for your help!
Maria
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby iluvmykids » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:57 pm

I think all parents should vaccinate their kids. And parents should think that if there are so many kids getting vaccinated then all those kids would be autistic. Everyone of those kids that are vaccinated. Scientist already research on the vaccines and it does NOT cause kids to have autism. In my opinion I think its either genetic or its from the enviroment, but not from the vaccines. Both my kids are vaccinated. My son still needs to get his mmr, vericella, and hib completed, but when he turned 2 yrs old he had the KD and that was on april 2009. So after 1 year he will continue and complete his vaccinations. My daughter who is 5 yrs old (does not have KD) has completed her vaccinations and both my kids are doing well =) If you don't vaccinate your kids at all, you are putting them in danger. And especially with our kids that has the KD needs to be vaccianted to help there immunity. Talk to your doctor and of course they will want you to have your children vaccinated to stay healthy and safe.
But then again your the parent and I just hate to see kids suffer more espeically when there immune system is not fully developed when there so young.
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby liquidambar » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:52 pm

iluvmykids:
As I was growing up, not everyone that had strep went on to have heart involvment or obsessive compulsive disorder. AND YET in some people strep will set up an autoimmune (inflammatory disease of the blood vessels) that damage the heart.
When I was ten I attended the funeral of my mother's 33 year old cousin that died from heart failure from just such an event. Understand she did not die from strep, but from her own immune system's reaction to strep, that she had as a child.

Same with the vaccines. For my children it was not the MMR vaccine, like many are now reporting, but the pertusis or better known as the whooping cough that bother them.
Both of my children had very high fevers with this vaccine, and yet the peditricians ignored it! I do not know why? I suppose because of their medical training.

My 2 year old daughter right after her fourth DPT became ill and stayed ill for SIX weeks till she came down with kawasaki's.
When she was five, she reacted with her fifth DPT shot by passing out, with 106 temperature, and kept an ear infection, sinus infection, stomach ache all that winter.

My son had his first DPT shot at two months old, ran a high temperature, and at his very next office visit had a heart mummur. There was no heart mummur before, it is even stated in the medical records from his previous office visit - no mummur- sounds good. But next office visit we had to go to the University of KY for a follow up.

My son's (same son) second DPT shot passed out, ran 106 temperature.

My son's (same son) third DPT shot, I could not keep his temperature down, and he had a stroke. Now the peds state no more pertusis.

My son(same son) SIX weeks after the third DPT shot had ran a high fever, had a seizure, kept the temperature for two weeks.

My son(same son) yet again SIX weeks later had yet another high fever and another grand mal seizure.

Delaid speech, epliepsy, Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Aspergers, tourettes, mitochondrial disorder on the complex I and II, is some of what he is or has been dignosed with.

Vaccines are drugs, medicines, and some people can tolerate some medicines better than others. We are not all equal, only in the eyes of God.

Vaccines have two parts: The antigens (proteins from the pathogen), and adjuvents (things attached to the antigen to make the immune system pay more attention to the vaccine) both are set up to cause an inflammatory immune reaction. Adjuvents are made of things like mercury, alumnium, squalene (fat, probably cause in the Gulf war syndrome), eggs proteins, whey protein, are some of things that are used for adjuvents. Vaccines are designed to arouse the immune system. what it does in some people is disturb the immune system, which disturbs the mitochondria (carbohydrate energy cycle) that cause inflammation.

Just thought you should know, even though it does not really involve you. Just wanted you to know it does involve others.
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby liquidambar » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:21 pm

Update;
My daughter now has revisited - that is she has it again - an inflammatory disorder unspecified after a recent three shot Hep B vaccine.
Hep B is turning out to be one of the worse vaccines for babies ever. Recent study done on primates, showed all primate babies affected.
Why would a baby need this unless the mother is affected at birth? Why would a child need this if it is not sexually active?
It does not last into adulthood either by the way.
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby bethroth » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:58 pm

Liquidamber,
I just have to ask did your dr. know about the past reactions to the vaccines and continued to give them anyway? When my son Gregroy had his 2nd DPT and went on to have a catatonic reaction (which can be deadly) he refused to give him another DPT. Gregory went on to have KD 5 years later. To this day which is 7 years post KD and a good 11 years after his reaction to the DPT they will not give him any form of a Dpt. If he ever were to get a deep cut the dr.s said they would even hospitalize him to give him a tetnus shot because he is at such a high risk for a reaction. I just don't understand any dr. not noteing a severe reaction in a childs chart.
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Re: flu and H1N1 vaccines

Postby tnicols » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:38 am

Hi,
My son has had severe reaction to his immunizations post KD (he got KD 5 days after his immunization at 2 months old) and then his 1 year and 1 1/2 year (which he got at 2 1/2 years old) immunizations is when it was the worst. Vomitting within the hour and lifeless like a rag doll - completely un-responsive. No one will call it a reaction - all they worried about was hydrating him etc. I am scared to death to give him his next set of immunization this year (which he needs to go to school) because no medical professional will seem to validate my concerns!! I am in Canada by the way.
Any further information you have I would appreciate.
TAnya
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