Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

General discussion regarding Kawasaki disease
Jody Hamilton
New Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:45 am

Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by Jody Hamilton » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:13 am

My son, Peyton, was diagnosed with KD when he was 17 months old back in 1998. He had a high fever for five days along with all of the other symptoms of KD (strawberry tongue, swollen lymph nodes, swollen hands and feet, rash, and red eyes). He was hospitalized for a week where he was treated with gamma globulin and aspirin. Three echo cardiograms later....no damage to his heart. Thank God!! The reason his heart was "saved" was because we admitted him on the fifth day of the high fever so we did catch "it" in its earliest stage (part of diagnosing KD is that the person must have a high fever for at least five days). It was a very scary experience for us since he was our first. Thirty days before Peyton's symptoms started, we had our carpet shampooed. The carpet was damp when he played on it. He was crawling at the time so he had a lot of contact with the damp carpet. Although his pediatrician said that there is no relationship between carpet shampooing and KD....I strongly believe there IS a relationship. Does anyone have this same experience with carpet shampooing and the symptoms of KD appearing approximately 30 days later? Peyton is now a healthy, active 11-year-old. After hearing about the death of Jett Travolta.....I am wondering if Peyton should be re-evaluated?? He plays football and baseball and I know many athletes get their hearts checked for free at this local Heart Hospital. Just wondering.

Momcat
KD Forum Leader
Posts: 1515
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:50 pm

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by Momcat » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:22 am

That was a popular theory years ago, but was disproven later on. You don't hear too much about it anymore, except now that Travolta holds that theory as it was popular back then. Now that his son has passed away, we may be hearing about it again. There is no proven cause for KD.

markgw
25+ Posts
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:34 pm

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by markgw » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:07 am

Even though the carpet cleaner theory no longer seems to carry much weight, there is never the less, still a strong connection. Many people still include carpet cleaners as a factor in their experience. I don't remember, It was a while ago in our case. I'll try and think back. Regardless, with some experience, by way of a bachelors degree (science major) behind me, i know that no scientist can state categorically whether something is a factor or not. It can only be an informed opinion. The reason being, that the cause is not known, so whatever the specific agent present in carpet cleaner is, if a child with KD had not been in contact with it via carpet cleaner, it is not impossible the child could have come in contact with the same agent by way of food additive, spray drift, bubble bath...etc etc. who knows?

What would be really useful here, keeping in mind this is an information resource unlike anything in history, would be to run a survey among members and get some concrete statistics. A list of questions could be suggested by members, as many people have their suspicions and pet concerns. Questions like ..." Was your child exposed to carpet cleaning products 3 months prior to KD? - yes/no . 1 month? yes/no. wet carpet? yes/no.

marinamom
100+ Posts
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:02 pm

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by marinamom » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:37 pm

You should absolutely have a KD child followed by a cardiologist throughout life, particularly if they play sports. KD can weaker arteries even if there is no apparent heart damage on echo right after the KD. Ensure as well that your local sports program has an AED.

As for the carpet cleaning, I think we should focus on the broader environmental toxin in our communities - 78,000 unregulated chemicals. So it could be carpet cleaning or numerous other chemicals our small children are exposed to that sets off KD. What we need to do as parents is protect our children from exposure to chemicals (something Kelly Preston was doing) and then educate our communities on how our environment is making is sick now - all of this information is there people just don't know. The EPA and AHA lists pollution as a major contributor to heart disease - which all of our KD children now have additional risks for.

mmiritello
100+ Posts
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:14 pm
Location: Tinley Park, IL

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by mmiritello » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:39 pm

My daughter was also exposed to capret cleaning 10 days befoer KD onset. There seems to be many connections to this. My daughter was only 7 months at the time and was also on the damp carpet.......

marinamom
100+ Posts
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:02 pm

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by marinamom » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:04 pm

My daughter was also exposed to carpet cleaning at two hotels a week before KD. However, I have searched this site and there are enough people who kids were not exposed to carpet cleaning to infer that it is a broader chemical exposure that may set off the KD in addition to probably an underlying virus (my daughter has RSV). Let's move beyond the carpet cleaning and look at how to have a safer environment for our children with less chemical and enviromental exposures. This is of great concern to KD parents as our children whether having heart damage on echos or not, are at increased risk for early heart disease.

Momcat
KD Forum Leader
Posts: 1515
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:50 pm

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by Momcat » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:51 pm

I just want to say that the comment about watching sports for kids that show no dilations or aneurysms isn't necessarily the way it is. The only kids restricted from contact sports are kids with aneurysms and sometimes all kids in the first 6 months or so after KD, just in case aneurysms develope over that time period. I don't think parents should be restricting kids from sports just because they had KD. Please read the AHA guidelines for long term management of these kids. Our child has super giant aneurysms and she is encouraged to do all sports, except the hard contact sports......even so, as parents we still let her take risks by horseback riding and sometimes rollerskating. She won't be able to join the volleyball, soccer or basketball teams at school. Actually the highest risk isn't because of rupture of the aneurysms (very rare), but more from the bleed she might get from trauma, especially if intracranial. She is on 2 anticoagulants.
BTW an AED would not help our daughter if she had a heart attack from a clot in her heart. The AED gets the electrical system restored in people who have irregular heartbeat and the heart stops for that reason. Usually those kind of problems are electrical shock, etc. The heartbeat stops on KD kids from bloodclots plugging up the arteries.
There is no known cause for KD. Carpet cleaning was ruled out years ago, but it may be chemical, molds, a stubborn bacteria, viral, an auto-immune event that cascades out of control with exposure to something else or a combination of all of them in certain genetics of kids..or something could trigger KD in succeptible kids....no one knows. I'm not keen on vaccinations, but most people have no problem with them and their KD kids. I don't believe there is any way you can clean enough to protect kids from this and I'm not sure chemicals have anything to do with it either.
We had been in a motel with freshly cleaned carpet, but we had also been to the ocean, just had vaccinations and they gave her a flu shot right in the middle of the KD (before diagnosis) and loads of other things.....we can all speculate, but research hasn't proven much yet, but they have said there is an immune response that is in hyperdrive.......and they have linked some common genes together from some of the studies. Some papers are now calling it auto-immune, but that doesn't mean much more than they really don't know.

marinamom
100+ Posts
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:02 pm

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by marinamom » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:19 pm

I think my post was misunderstood. I understand that momcat has a daughter with KD complications and I'm sorry that you have that. My son (daughter had KD) had heart surgery when he was one week old. I was responding to the lady whose post made it seem that her son had not had his heart checked and is now a teenager. There is some significant research and the new paper by Dr. Burns that kids with KD and no apparent heart problems can still have heart damage - it is well researched at Boston Childrens that they have stiffer arteries. In addition, teenage years and sports are known times for heart problems to arise - just check your newspapers. Thus, it would not hurt to have her son echo'd to ensure there is no residual heart problem as the research is not clear - there could be lingering immune, genetic, etc causes. The physicians are busy and treat acute problems, as parents however, we need to be aware and advocate for our children. With regard to the AED, there have been reports in Japan of late heart attacks from KD even though yes it would not help in with anyreuisms - my son is at greater risk given his surgery so I do know this. Nonetheless, AEDs and sports makes sense and every parent should make sure their schools have them. L

Momcat
KD Forum Leader
Posts: 1515
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:50 pm

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by Momcat » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:51 pm

Yes, it is true AEDs are great for schools and businesses to have.
I didn't know your child had a heart surgery, so you probably try to stay on top of CPR trainings and knowing about AEDs, I just don't want KD parents to be confused about it. An AED will do nothing if your child has a clot in an aneurysm and the artery is blocked. Yes, it is true that arteries are stiffer after KD and research is saying it probably leads to atherosclerosis later. However, I also don't want KD parents thinking their kids cannot do sports if they had KD. I do most of the postings under the medical articles at this forum so I do know what you are talking about and I think we are pretty much in agreement.
An echo shows the arteries, but not in the greatest imaging. Cardio MRIs can tell a lot more if a child has significant damage. I think the cardio CTs can show calcifications.
Yes, kids have heart attacks from KD, but it usually isn't an nervous system problem which AEDs are for. Please let me know the articles in Japan where there have been reports regarding this and KD in regards to AEDs if you have something in regard to this. I do know of a few kids who had sino atrial problems caused by the aneurysms.
I've done a lot of research on KD and most of what you are saying is right on. UCSD is recalling KD kids because of the findings of heart muscle problems in KD, seen later in life....mycocardial fibrosis. This is fairly new information and something all KD parents should know and something they should make their pediatricians and pediatric cardiologists aware of.
Why did your child have heart surgery? Did it have anything to do with the KD, or did KD come later?

marinamom
100+ Posts
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:02 pm

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by marinamom » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:04 pm

I know the problems with echos very well. My son's heart defect was discovered prenatally on ultrasound. He has never had KD but had a narrowed aortic and vsd, both of which will probably require further surgery. Thus, as a parent with a child with a heart defect, I was very on top of by daughter's KD, which she had a year ago. I called all over the country about follow-up for a child with no obvious cardiac involvement. I receive very different answers to this day and am concerned that our local cardiologist wouldn't even do follow-up after the 6 month echo, while at Stanford (our usual place right now) they do a stress echo at 7 or 8 (every time we go there he recommends additional follow-up) to the disturbing recent findings by Dr. Burns. I am worried for parents out there whose kids didn't have apparent cardiac involvement and don't think about KD again - except perhaps given the current media storm. For a child with uncomplicated KD history, insurance probably wouldn't cover a cardiac MRI but maybe if parents push but a stress echo as a teenager again might make sense. If you want to talk further feel free to contact me at 916-439-4376.

Mom2John
100+ Posts
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by Mom2John » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:37 pm

Sorry to jump in, but I wanted to post about my son's follow ups. Thankfully since the move, our son's new pediatrician is a cardiologist as well. He agrees with our old cardiologist about having follow ups at 6 wks, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, and every year thereafter until my son is in school, then a stress test will be administered.

Just posting his schedule of follow ups if it helps anyone.....it will be two years tomorrow that he had treatment. No signs of coronary damage (thankfully).
Kawasaki Disease Awareness....one red and orange ribbon at a time.

Please tell me your story..... DangerousFlames@gmail.com
Only through our words can others learn.

bmullins
New Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:26 am

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by bmullins » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:30 am

My son suffered from Kawasakis at age 3. We were very lucky that our Doctor had seen this disease once during his residency. We had the same experience. We cleaned the carpet about two weeks before my son showed any symptoms. He had played on somewhat of a damp carpet, not wet, but a little damp. I think it is highly possible this is related.

Nancy
KD Forum Leader
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:49 am

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by Nancy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:41 am

hi

All of the KD researchers I am know long ago discarded the "carpet cleaning" theory :)
It was originally in a 1982 article in The Lancet..and was never able to be replicated !

Saying that a child played on a newly cleaned carpet and later became sick is faulty logic...similar to saying my child drank apple juice and then developed KD...therefore, apple juice causes KD.....
IF carpet cleaning were a cause of KD...we would see an epidemic !

And on a personal note...I have no carpets in my house (husband's allergies) and my son had KD at age 7 yrs and not been anywhere with carpets for many months !

Many researchers think that some children have a genetic predisposition to KD...and that it is "triggered" by something...a common virus, a bacteria, etc and the child's immune system over reacts and the symptoms we call KD develop...
It is that "trigger" that the researchers are busy trying to identify..but, they are not spending time on the outdated carpet cleaning theory..

best,
Nancy
mom to Jason

jrotsen
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:15 pm

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by jrotsen » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:38 pm

My daughter had KD at the age of 2.5, she is now 12 and healthy for the most part....she does have autoimmune thyroid disease.....I believe KD is an autoimmune disease caused by an environmental trigger and a faulty immune system (latest studies suggest an infectious agent, NOT carpet cleaners or other household cleaners -- they have done exhaustive research on this) They do not know what causes KD or other autoimmune diseases......KD does not lead to other autoimmune diseases like RA, lupus, etc......Rather, it's the faulty immune system which makes a person susceptible to KD and other autoimmune problems. So, if you are prone to KD, you would be more prone to other autoimmune issues. My daughter had no contact with cleaners before her KD, she was exposed to a bad stomach virus that was going through the neighborhood -- incidentally, there was a boy a couple blocks away from where we lived who had KD as well, within two weeks of my daughter.....There have been clusters and there are seasonal spikes of KD, also suggesting an infectious trigger.

jmrn44
New Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:59 pm

Re: Relationship between Carpet shampooing and KD

Post by jmrn44 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:15 pm

My son to was diagnosed with kd in oct. 98 he was 2. My mother in law had used resolve on my husbands carpet in his office. The carpet was very very old and the hot water heater had flooded it several times over the yrs which my hubby would pull the carpet back and put a fan on it to dry it. the water heater broke again and flooded the carpet right after she cleaned the carpet with a whole bottle of resolve. My son Braden and I had walked into his office nobody was there and when we stepped on the carpet we realized it was soaked and left. 10 days later he came down with the symptoms. I am a nurse and knew that he was misdiagnosed with scarlet fever on a sat. Took him to pedi office and was seen stat. Dr. looked at him several times before he dx him with kd and sent us straight to hospital with orders not go home just straight to hosp. I couldnt remeber kd from nursing school they shoved pediatrics at us in 8 wks. scary! and this was not my field of nursing. Thank the Lord above our pedi had done a residency in houston tx which is high in kd and he was able to dx us with in 5 min. of seeing him. Which was on day 3. He will be going for complete exams with echo, stress test and ekg with pedi cardiologist from childrens hosp in dallas/ft worth this summer. He has had no problems and is very active in soccer and basketball . But I will always push to have him examined every few yrs for the rest of his life even if I have to pay for it out of my pocket. I got rid of all of our carpet and have area rugs that can be replaced when needed and dont go into anyones house who has cleaned carpets, uphostry, vehicles etc. He is not allowed to sit on the carpet at school etc. and hope and pray when we are in a hotel etc. that he doesnt get it again. I am a firm believer (in the pit of my stomach u know that mommy intuition) that it is related to chemicals and/ mold.

Post Reply